USS Tamerlane

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:31 am 
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Author: Saladin
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mdbruffy wrote:
Aabh wrote:
No, my database crashed. I'll get there... stay with me.


Ah! okay. I hope Tamerlane was on an external drive! :o


Ditto that! O.o....

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Location: Colorado, USA, Earth, Sol, Perseus Arm (Orion Starbridge), Virgo Supercluster
It was the work database. Tamerlane is just fine! :D I promise to read it soon!

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:44 pm 
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Okay... here we go...

Caution: Spoilers from hell! :D

Madison, I loved it as always! :D This is my favorite of the set so far.

And here are my thoughts:

-----------------------

First section: San Francisco- The lighting on Janet is too dark, her cheeks look sunk in, or worse: like she has a strange beard. Perhaps a light set under the floor shining upward with no shadows will help. It is a fake "Ambient light". Generally, I put one in to smooth out some of the harsher lighting. Go for three point lighting: one on the floor, slightly behind the characters, one to the right of the characters, very bright and one on the left, at about 50% the right one which gives definition.

REALLY like the interaction between Janet and Shev. It is very genuine.

I really don't like the mouths... they all look like they are puckering up all the time... LOOKING LOOK THOOS with lots of "oo"s. Janet has always looked like she has a problem with her lips.

I misread the first panels of the attack on the Venture as Shev saying those things. I can't see a way to correct that (Shev's mouth is closed, the dialogue bubbles are obviously "Staticky", etc)... so you may not have anything to worry about on that one :D

Poor Shev, all alone in the Aux control. Those Horizons, no one ELSE in Aux control? Seems kinda scary.

Also: In the alternate universe the Venture has the same patch as the Enterprise? Is this because of your alternate universe? Or just a missing detail?

I love the dramatic splash on page 23 of Shev and her award citation excerpt. Beautiful composition.

I don't think Farragut would have left her alone... I think they would have beamed over a team and then beamed her out... she's in shock and traumatized, she needs to be in sickbay. She's not a good officer while in shock, so it's not a smart move no matter which way you look at it.

Your posing is getting so much better! :D I love the look on Shev's face when she wakes with a start.

She's wearing the same patch... Enterprise/Venture. I can't tell the rank on the uniforms... I can't remember if you had them before or if

you are missing something or if I am... But I can't tell if Shev is in uniform or not.

I love the Spirit of Chicago :D

It seems we go on too long about the personal ships... like "Of course, since you are from New York and I am from Vermont you know that as Americans we have to vote on November 2nd, we vote in primaries and then must vote for Democrats or Republican candidates." We just wouldn't say that and sound natural... if Shev says "The rules haven't changed, have they?" then Janet doesn't need to tell her anything. Now, what you can do to fix this is say "Yes, actually, they have changed..." and then explain it.

32) Hard to tell if our Vulcan outranks the engineer fellow... but I'd assume that she is an officer. That's a court martial offense he committed. He'll be lucky if he keeps his commission. It's a great scene, setting up the Kirk/Spock sequence, I see why you have to have it, but this guy totally lost his stripes, he's gone. That kind of behavior gets him scrubbing warp conduits for the rest of his very short career. If I was in the (current) military and my white captain was married to a black man and I was a racist, I'd transfer off or keep my big mouth shut for my own good... because on a ship, people get protective about the old man/old lady and you say that to the wrong guy and he beats you into next month... and you know it.

Cute Vulcan, by the way. I hope to see her again! :D

I LOVE the backstory with Mitchell :D That is a great twist, and the reason we love Nova Trek! :D

Nice scene with Tamara. Isis I had almost totally forgotten "She sleeps almost as much as a real cat" helped me remember instantly. That was an excellent tie-in.

PP 39, middle frame: Jan and Tamara "Besides, you'll need sponsors..." beautiful framework. Excellent picture, Jan's thumb is off (It looks like Tamara's arm is flat like paper), but this is an excellent frame.

PP 40) I love Shev's face; it's really good here. She looks genuinely amused :)

I'm not sure why we have to dress down Mr. Barker? Are we worried that Jan won't be seen as a good captain? a good disciplinarian? I'm just unclear as to why we have this scene... unless Mr. Barker is going to come back at some point... but if that's the case then this is what is called a "chekhov's gun" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun), it's the gun over the mantle that you KNOW will be used to kill the bad guy in the last fight of the story... If it's not, then it's really only serving one purpose; to tell us, the audience, that Janet is a badass captain... but we shouldn't need that. She's Janet Kirk! :D

43) funky puzzle-piece text bubbles... weird.

And here we go again... okay, We get it, Janet is a badass... can we move on? Actually, this scene is more appropriate than the Barker scene... but back-to-back they just beat your audience over the head with "Janet is cool"... In creative writing they once said "Show it, don't say it".

How does Therran know she's a commander? I didn't know she was a commander until just now :D I really think the lack of rank is a problem... :D

Ah... I see why Shev had to stay on-board the Venture... I don't know if this serves it better or not... Maybe more of an argument from Shev with the captain of the Farragut? Something where it was better for the captain to just leave her there... No... I still think their Chief Medical Officer would have ultimately drugged her and brought her back over to the Farragut... I think just being the only survivor over there is trauma enough. You could add a "We have to wait 12 hours for the radiation levels to subside before we beam you out" or something like that if you really want Shev to stay, but she can't stay by her own choice. I know you need her to, and it's cool... we just need to come up with a better reason.

Page 47) funky puzzle piece bubbles again...

OOoooo Sulu part of Section 31? Maybe? Cooooool! :D

"You never would accept a simple answer" panel: really nice.

Jan's scrambled eggs on her shoulder don't look right up close, you may want to change that design.

Hey! Cute Trill! :D And the spots go all the way down :D

Pp 53) Nothing needs to be said here... this is a beautiful scene.

The only thing I'll say at this point is that Shev should be a Lt. Commander, Spock is a Commander and the helmsman shouldn't be the same rank as your first officer... it leads to weird command structure... Even if Spock has time and grade, it's still a funky situation.

I like Rand at nav... good choice :D

"In the two years, he has served under my command..." should be "In the two years he has served under my command" no comma. I like he housewarming scene, but the bubble points are wrong... it's hard to tell who is talking... and since both characters are "new" to us, it's hard to follow. First and only typo! Nice! :D

Yay! Aurora! :D

The scene with Jan, Tamara, T'Pel and Uncle Frank: well set up... I love Uncle Frank on this one; he's well posed.


Pp 73: Jan says "That's not going to happen" but it's not clear WHAT until the next frame... we have two bubbles in the frame previously, saying two different things... so it's not really clear what Jan is saying isn't going to happen... mostly because it looks like Jan is reproaching Tamera, as if Jan is saying "Get a grip, you are an experiment waiting to happen, you know it, we all know it, accept it and go get your brain operated on"... I think this could be solved if Jan didn't look so stern, and Tamera wasn't looking at Jan but at Frank or the floor...

I don't think anyone who hasn't taken the Kobiyashi Maru would actually call it that, it'd be like saying "That super hard question on your final that you'll take in four years about temporal physics which the answer is 47 and no one knows about"... I think Frank would say "your final exams" or something.

Aw, it's a new Little T :D Wait... does that mean she's the Little T-A? Or Little T&A? o.O (Sorry, I went totally juvenile there :D)

Pp 85: Shev's on a roll... I like her! :D

Pp 89: Why is "borders" a different size?

Gotta say, it's cool seeing Klingons acting "normal", quoting Kahless and planning. It gives them a great depth.

I like the Romulan ship... that's a beautiful bird! :D

Go Little T&A! Go Little T&A! It's your birthday, it's your birthday! :D


Good solid ending. That works.

-------------------------------------

General thoughts:

This is a good middle piece, with a few exceptions (Mr. Barker, our racist engineer), I like the character interaction a lot. It's easy to

love these people, they are real and honest. Jan is still a little stiff, but she's loosening up with every chapter.

You relied some on the "Hey lookies! This is from TOS! Wink Wink, nudge nudge" on your previous stories, which weighed it down. This really feels like your own story, we never had a Romulan war in TOS. I love this departure, it's making your stories mature quite a bit.

Composition:

(here it comes) You still need to work a little more on the composition of the pages, layout and design is an art in and of itself. Something that can make or break a comic. Certainly it can make a Poser comic become superb. You also have a tendency to do "two over" panels all the time (Tamera talks, so you show her whole head, then Jan talks so you show her whole head, then Tamera talks, whole head... etc) I posted Wally Wood's 22 panels that always work, try to use some of those ideas from time to time (Star Trek is renowned for having talking heads all the time! It drives me NUTS with Tamerlane). Also, you still continue to make your artwork more important than the story in places... which is why we get puzzle-piece text bubbles and frame spacing that is too small. The art only serves to tell the story, if you cover up that gorgeous model of the Enterprise on the desk, so be it. Unless the model is part of the action in that panel. The only thing you can't cover up is a characters' eyes or mouth, after that is anything that identifies the character (Jan's red hair, Shev's blue skin), anything else is fair game.

Also, give more breathing room between panels, you have them really, really crowded in there, which makes the story hard to process. You should have a nice, clear space between panels... since you have a space story and there is a lot of black in the story (naturally), you might want to make your background white, to distinguish the panels better.

Use your panels to tell the story too, if it's a scene where something weird is happening, offset the picture, cut the panels in strange shapes, shake it up. in Action sequences, put more panels in and overlap them (Don't do this all the time). Use panels cut to only show a characters eyes, forcing your viewer to notice only her expression. Or her mouth when she says something... that means you really want us to focus on the expressions. When you want us to feel that a character is all alone, pull waaaaaay back, leaving her small and defenseless. Tell us that is what she's feeling.

Sometimes when a character is saying something REALLY important, put him/her against a sold color background or a simple two-tone background. With these wonderful Poser renders, you get EVERYTHING in a scene... but it's data overload... and it doesn't help your readers... they need to be focusing on Shev coming unglued.... but they are distracted by that wonderful sunset picture in the BG... and that plant thingie... So you lose some of your storytelling power there... your audience gets that it is an important scene, but they only get it because that's what the dialogue says...For instance, in that same scene when Jan and Shev are talking about Shev taking the helm, something dramatic is happening here... You have four panels that tell the story just fine.... but what is critical about it isn't being shown... honestly, I thought Shev was throwing up her lunch for a moment there... nerves? Maybe...? Doesn't want to be at the helm? I got it a moment later, but that drew me out of the story, and you lost about 50% of your dramatic power on that very honest and awesome scene...

I highly recommend you get a piece of paper out and sketch out what you want for the scene... stick figures are fine, but before you render the frame you need to know if your dialogue box is going to cover the upper left part of the panel or not... should you render with more open space on the left or not? Is this a close-up? An establishing shot? It doesn't matter if you can draw or not, you need to plan the panels out more, knowing that there will be a lot of text in them. It also will allow you to get a better idea of when to use a close up or a long shot to help the scene more.

(Forgive me, this was drawn quickly in ballpoint- but it's an illustration): I'm doing this scene because it is a great moment, and I want to show how shaking up the panels would increase the dramatic effect on the page. This isn't a mocking thing at all... honest.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:49 pm 
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Artist: Tamerlane
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Location: Colorado, USA, Earth, Sol, Perseus Arm (Orion Starbridge), Virgo Supercluster
I just realized something... The dressing down of the Engineer never set up anything... so it's yet another "Janet doesn't like racism" scene... Fold these sequences into the story more or get rid of them... We know Jan isn't hot on racism, she's married to a Vulcan... we don't need to see that.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:42 pm 
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Aabh wrote:
Okay... here we go...

Caution: Spoilers from hell! :D

Madison, I loved it as always! :D This is my favorite of the set so far.

And here are my thoughts:

The only way I could find to respond to things was to do this "In-line", hope it works...

-----------------------

First section: San Francisco- The lighting on Janet is too dark, her cheeks look sunk in, or worse: like she has a strange beard. Perhaps a light set under the floor shining upward with no shadows will help. It is a fake "Ambient light". Generally, I put one in to smooth out some of the harsher lighting. Go for three point lighting: one on the floor, slightly behind the characters, one to the right of the characters, very bright and one on the left, at about 50% the right one which gives definition.

REALLY like the interaction between Janet and Shev. It is very genuine.

I really don't like the mouths... they all look like they are puckering up all the time... LOOKING LOOK THOOS with lots of "oo"s. Janet has always looked like she has a problem with her lips.

I misread the first panels of the attack on the Venture as Shev saying those things. I can't see a way to correct that (Shev's mouth is closed, the dialogue bubbles are obviously "Staticky", etc)... so you may not have anything to worry about on that one :D

Poor Shev, all alone in the Aux control. Those Horizons, no one ELSE in Aux control? Seems kinda scary.

Also: In the alternate universe the Venture has the same patch as the Enterprise? Is this because of your alternate universe? Or just a missing detail?

To tell you the truth, I never really thought about it till now. You're right, the Venture should have had it's own badge- like Starbase 98 did.

I love the dramatic splash on page 23 of Shev and her award citation excerpt. Beautiful composition.

I don't think Farragut would have left her alone... I think they would have beamed over a team and then beamed her out... she's in shock and traumatized, she needs to be in sickbay. She's not a good officer while in shock, so it's not a smart move no matter which way you look at it.

Your posing is getting so much better! :D I love the look on Shev's face when she wakes with a start.

She's wearing the same patch... Enterprise/Venture. I can't tell the rank on the uniforms... I can't remember if you had them before or if

you are missing something or if I am... But I can't tell if Shev is in uniform or not.

I love the Spirit of Chicago :D

It seems we go on too long about the personal ships... like "Of course, since you are from New York and I am from Vermont you know that as Americans we have to vote on November 2nd, we vote in primaries and then must vote for Democrats or Republican candidates." We just wouldn't say that and sound natural... if Shev says "The rules haven't changed, have they?" then Janet doesn't need to tell her anything. Now, what you can do to fix this is say "Yes, actually, they have changed..." and then explain it.

The Spirit of Chicago does show up again, so I felt I had to come up with a reason why it would be allowed to remain on board. In the earlier draft, Shev didn't show up till Enterprise arrived at the starbase- Then she, Uncle Frank and Aunt T'pel all beamed aboard together. There was no time to develope the relationship between Shev and Jan. The San Fransico scene and all the Venture/Chicago stuff grew out of the need to develope their relationship.

32) Hard to tell if our Vulcan outranks the engineer fellow... but I'd assume that she is an officer. That's a court martial offense he committed. He'll be lucky if he keeps his commission. It's a great scene, setting up the Kirk/Spock sequence, I see why you have to have it, but this guy totally lost his stripes, he's gone. That kind of behavior gets him scrubbing warp conduits for the rest of his very short career. If I was in the (current) military and my white captain was married to a black man and I was a racist, I'd transfer off or keep my big mouth shut for my own good... because on a ship, people get protective about the old man/old lady and you say that to the wrong guy and he beats you into next month... and you know it.
" It's a great scene, setting up the Kirk/Spock sequence". I'm not sure what you mean here. What Kirk/Spock sequence? Do you mean Kirk/Shev?
The engineer was an attempt to echo Lt.Styles from "Balance of Terror". Styles only got a good talking to. This guy got kicked off the ship.


Cute Vulcan, by the way. I hope to see her again! :D

Every story gives me one or two more crewmembers that I can use again as background characters.

I LOVE the backstory with Mitchell :D That is a great twist, and the reason we love Nova Trek! :D

Nice scene with Tamara. Isis I had almost totally forgotten "She sleeps almost as much as a real cat" helped me remember instantly. That was an excellent tie-in.

PP 39, middle frame: Jan and Tamara "Besides, you'll need sponsors..." beautiful framework. Excellent picture, Jan's thumb is off (It looks like Tamara's arm is flat like paper), but this is an excellent frame.

PP 40) I love Shev's face; it's really good here. She looks genuinely amused :)

I'm not sure why we have to dress down Mr. Barker? Are we worried that Jan won't be seen as a good captain? a good disciplinarian? I'm just unclear as to why we have this scene... unless Mr. Barker is going to come back at some point... but if that's the case then this is what is called a "chekhov's gun" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun), it's the gun over the mantle that you KNOW will be used to kill the bad guy in the last fight of the story... If it's not, then it's really only serving one purpose; to tell us, the audience, that Janet is a badass captain... but we shouldn't need that. She's Janet Kirk! :D

This was an attempt to show Jan as administrator/Captain. Until this story, we'd mostly seen her as an adventuress. In this story, one of the things I wanted to do, was show her dealing with the crew.

43) funky puzzle-piece text bubbles... weird.

And here we go again... okay, We get it, Janet is a badass... can we move on? Actually, this scene is more appropriate than the Barker scene... but back-to-back they just beat your audience over the head with "Janet is cool"... In creative writing they once said "Show it, don't say it".

On this one, I have to disagree with you, Guy. This was intended as just more of Jan's history. Shev and Tam had to be talking about something, Jan seemed a good choice.


How does Therran know she's a commander? I didn't know she was a commander until just now :D I really think the lack of rank is a problem... :D

I started out with the collar pips in the first book. Somehow along the way, they got left out. :?

Ah... I see why Shev had to stay on-board the Venture... I don't know if this serves it better or not... Maybe more of an argument from Shev with the captain of the Farragut? Something where it was better for the captain to just leave her there... No... I still think their Chief Medical Officer would have ultimately drugged her and brought her back over to the Farragut... I think just being the only survivor over there is trauma enough. You could add a "We have to wait 12 hours for the radiation levels to subside before we beam you out" or something like that if you really want Shev to stay, but she can't stay by her own choice. I know you need her to, and it's cool... we just need to come up with a better reason.

Page 47) funky puzzle piece bubbles again...

I assume you mean the "Uncle Frank. I was going to call later" and "Good. I was afraid she wouldn't show up." You're probably right. Looking back on it now, it probably should have been 4 panels instead of two.

OOoooo Sulu part of Section 31? Maybe? Cooooool! :D

"You never would accept a simple answer" panel: really nice.

Jan's scrambled eggs on her shoulder don't look right up close, you may want to change that design.

I've had trouble with that braid since BooK One. In some scenes it looks fine, then in others, it stretches and blurs. Well, it's a little late to change it now- it's been like that for 4 books. She doesn't wear it much in the big 3 parter- and after that they all change.

Hey! Cute Trill! :D And the spots go all the way down :D

Pp 53) Nothing needs to be said here... this is a beautiful scene.

Thank you. I was concerned about this scene. I don't now how to do tears.So I was concerned about how to pull off Shev's mini-breakdown.Going for the action instead of the close-up seemed the only other way to go with it.

The only thing I'll say at this point is that Shev should be a Lt. Commander, Spock is a Commander and the helmsman shouldn't be the same rank as your first officer... it leads to weird command structure... Even if Spock has time and grade, it's still a funky situation.

I like Rand at nav... good choice :D

"In the two years, he has served under my command..." should be "In the two years he has served under my command" no comma. I like he housewarming scene, but the bubble points are wrong... it's hard to tell who is talking... and since both characters are "new" to us, it's hard to follow. First and only typo! Nice! :D

Therran is not a new character. he's been in the series right from the start. Check out 'Gains and Losses" again and see him on the bridge questioning Jan's decison to invite Commander Kang on board. This is his first large part in a story and he does have more in the next one.

Yay! Aurora! :D

I'm very gratful to Tim for allowing me to use Aurora. Without it, I would have had to fake some kind of video and the Aurora cameo's fun for folks who know about it.

The scene with Jan, Tamara, T'Pel and Uncle Frank: well set up... I love Uncle Frank on this one; he's well posed.


Pp 73: Jan says "That's not going to happen" but it's not clear WHAT until the next frame... we have two bubbles in the frame previously, saying two different things... so it's not really clear what Jan is saying isn't going to happen... mostly because it looks like Jan is reproaching Tamera, as if Jan is saying "Get a grip, you are an experiment waiting to happen, you know it, we all know it, accept it and go get your brain operated on"... I think this could be solved if Jan didn't look so stern, and Tamera wasn't looking at Jan but at Frank or the floor...

I don't think anyone who hasn't taken the Kobiyashi Maru would actually call it that, it'd be like saying "That super hard question on your final that you'll take in four years about temporal physics which the answer is 47 and no one knows about"... I think Frank would say "your final exams" or something.

Tam knows about the Kobiyashi Maru. She was ready to take it- she was in the bridge simulator- when that verison of Uncle Frank was forced to charge her with breaking into the program control room. At the end of "Guardian's Child", Spock stated that her memories ended with being escorted out of the simulator.

Aw, it's a new Little T :D Wait... does that mean she's the Little T-A? Or Little T&A? o.O (Sorry, I went totally juvenile there :D)

Pp 85: Shev's on a roll... I like her! :D

Shev transplanted from the "Altered Lives" short stories alot better than I could have hoped. Aunt T'pel, too.

Pp 89: Why is "borders" a different size?

because that was a spelling correction and I didn't get the size right. ;)

Gotta say, it's cool seeing Klingons acting "normal", quoting Kahless and planning. It gives them a great depth.

That Klingon sequence cane out really, really good. I have to say thanks again to Rduda and Bluto over at the Daz forums. Rduda's hall interior and Bluto's city model really helped bring that sequence to life.

I like the Romulan ship... that's a beautiful bird! :D

Go Little T&A! Go Little T&A! It's your birthday, it's your birthday! :D

I'm letting the cat out of the bag alittle here, but you will get to see the Tamerlane -A in part 3 of the 3 parter.


Good solid ending. That works.

-------------------------------------

General thoughts:

This is a good middle piece, with a few exceptions (Mr. Barker, our racist engineer), I like the character interaction a lot. It's easy to

love these people, they are real and honest. Jan is still a little stiff, but she's loosening up with every chapter.

You relied some on the "Hey lookies! This is from TOS! Wink Wink, nudge nudge" on your previous stories, which weighed it down. This really feels like your own story, we never had a Romulan war in TOS. I love this departure, it's making your stories mature quite a bit.

Composition:

(here it comes) You still need to work a little more on the composition of the pages, layout and design is an art in and of itself. Something that can make or break a comic. Certainly it can make a Poser comic become superb. You also have a tendency to do "two over" panels all the time (Tamera talks, so you show her whole head, then Jan talks so you show her whole head, then Tamera talks, whole head... etc) I posted Wally Wood's 22 panels that always work, try to use some of those ideas from time to time (Star Trek is renowned for having talking heads all the time! It drives me NUTS with Tamerlane). Also, you still continue to make your artwork more important than the story in places... which is why we get puzzle-piece text bubbles and frame spacing that is too small. The art only serves to tell the story, if you cover up that gorgeous model of the Enterprise on the desk, so be it. Unless the model is part of the action in that panel. The only thing you can't cover up is a characters' eyes or mouth, after that is anything that identifies the character (Jan's red hair, Shev's blue skin), anything else is fair game.

Also, give more breathing room between panels, you have them really, really crowded in there, which makes the story hard to process. You should have a nice, clear space between panels... since you have a space story and there is a lot of black in the story (naturally), you might want to make your background white, to distinguish the panels better.

Use your panels to tell the story too, if it's a scene where something weird is happening, offset the picture, cut the panels in strange shapes, shake it up. in Action sequences, put more panels in and overlap them (Don't do this all the time). Use panels cut to only show a characters eyes, forcing your viewer to notice only her expression. Or her mouth when she says something... that means you really want us to focus on the expressions. When you want us to feel that a character is all alone, pull waaaaaay back, leaving her small and defenseless. Tell us that is what she's feeling.

Sometimes when a character is saying something REALLY important, put him/her against a sold color background or a simple two-tone background. With these wonderful Poser renders, you get EVERYTHING in a scene... but it's data overload... and it doesn't help your readers... they need to be focusing on Shev coming unglued.... but they are distracted by that wonderful sunset picture in the BG... and that plant thingie... So you lose some of your storytelling power there... your audience gets that it is an important scene, but they only get it because that's what the dialogue says...For instance, in that same scene when Jan and Shev are talking about Shev taking the helm, something dramatic is happening here... You have four panels that tell the story just fine.... but what is critical about it isn't being shown... honestly, I thought Shev was throwing up her lunch for a moment there... nerves? Maybe...? Doesn't want to be at the helm? I got it a moment later, but that drew me out of the story, and you lost about 50% of your dramatic power on that very honest and awesome scene...

I highly recommend you get a piece of paper out and sketch out what you want for the scene... stick figures are fine, but before you render the frame you need to know if your dialogue box is going to cover the upper left part of the panel or not... should you render with more open space on the left or not? Is this a close-up? An establishing shot? It doesn't matter if you can draw or not, you need to plan the panels out more, knowing that there will be a lot of text in them. It also will allow you to get a better idea of when to use a close up or a long shot to help the scene more.

I do lay out every page on paper before I start the artwork- sometimes i even go back and re-do the layouts. I try to keep it at a maximum of 9 panels at most because I know anything more than that will be too small.

(Forgive me, this was drawn quickly in ballpoint- but it's an illustration): I'm doing this scene because it is a great moment, and I want to show how shaking up the panels would increase the dramatic effect on the page. This isn't a mocking thing at all... honest.

Attachment:
001.jpg


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:12 am 
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"On this one, I have to disagree with you, Guy. This was intended as just more of Jan's history. Shev and Tam had to be talking about something, Jan seemed a good choice."

Actually, the last of the three scenes is the best. If you keep any of them, keep the one about the cadet and stuff. :D It's just that, as # 3 in the "See how cool Jan is?", it was over the top. Showing Jan as an administrator can be in many ways: You could have her in engineering helping balance the warp core, you could have her giving someone a review... the problem is that all three of the scenes were pretty negative, scene 1: You are a racist, get off my ship! Scene 2: You didn't do your paperwork right! Do it right or I'll boot you off my ship! Scene 3: I kicked a guy in the nuts so hard he had to have reconstructive surgery... (and told him to get off my ship! XD ;p)... I'm all for showing that she does other stuff, but maybe not yelling at people all the time. Kirk didn't rule with an iron fist... especially not after first season (When they settled his character down some).

Showing what Julie or Jan do as Captains of their ships is not the point of the story, it's flavor. It's like people swabbing decks on a sea vessel... you can't NOT have that and be realistic, but you wouldn't make an entire scene about guys swabbing the decks, but you WOULD put them in the background, or have the captain tell them to swab while he is doing something else. Have it be part of a scene's lead in and you still get the point across, but you don't beat people over the head with it.

Example:

INT. HALLWAY

Shev finds Jan standing at the opening of a Jefferies tube. she's holding a spanner and talking to a disembodied voice:

Jan: So you're saying his reports are unreadable?

VOICE (From tube): Aye. I know he's been under pressure lately, wha with all the tests for th' Academy an all... but ya canna be writing up gobbledegook all th'time! It's makes us look bad!

Jan: Okay, I'll talk to him. Maybe there's something we can work out. Would if be okay if I moved him to a different shift? Maybe he's just tired...

VOICE: Aye, if ya think'it'll help. And Thank'ya Ma'am.

Jan: Oh Shev! How are you fitting in?

Shev: Fine, I was looking over the helm control layout and saw that the purple buttons on the Venture are blue on the Enterprise. I worried that they may taste more like blueberries....

(You get the idea). This shows that Jan does do administration, and you don't have to have an entire scene devoted to it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:03 pm 
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...It's just that, as # 3 in the "See how cool Jan is?", it was over the top. Showing Jan as an administrator can be in many ways: You could have her in engineering helping balance the warp core, you could have her giving someone a review... the problem is that all three of the scenes were pretty negative, scene 1: You are a racist, get off my ship! Scene 2: You didn't do your paperwork right! Do it right or I'll boot you off my ship! Scene 3: I kicked a guy in the nuts so hard he had to have reconstructive surgery... (and told him to get off my ship! XD ;p)...

I'm sorry you took it that way. That's not how those scenes were intended to go over. It's intresting- and I don't mean this in a negative way- how 3 or 4 people can see or read something and come away with 3 or 4 differet takes on things.
Things end up with meanings read into them , often times , that the author never intended. And I don't just mean my stuff. I've read interviews with authors who talk about how readers interpret their works with layers of meaning the authors never thought of.
The extreme example of this would ba the K/S people. Where they get that kind of relationship from what's shown on screen is beyond me- all I see is a good, strong friendship.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:56 am 
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I do agree there's a lot of negativity in those scenes... but how it came to me was that Jan isn't 100% supported by her crew, and has to keep bringing the hammer down. That might not be what you were after; but it also works, for me - there's racial tension in these relatively early days of Star Fleet, which is supported by the source material. There's resistance to female captains, also supported by the source material. All of that makes it quite plausible to me that her crew might, in many cases, just be doing their job rather than putting in 110% effort - and Jan's reaction to that is to get stern, almost harsh.

Though as I recall, my first reaction to the scene with the Geer's report is that it was Spock's job to be disciplining him, not Jan's. Which probably stems from similar sources as Guy's comments - it's just a little too much.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:42 am 
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Madison, please don't take this the wrong way: I do love your story. :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:44 pm 
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Aabh wrote:
Madison, please don't take this the wrong way: I do love your story. :)



Oh I understand that. It's just like I said, it's surprising how different people can read or watch the same thing and come away with a dozen different takes on it. ;)


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