USS Tamerlane

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Do you read Star Trek Fan Fiction?
Yes, I read whatever I can get my hands on, love it all. 13%  13%  [ 2 ]
Yes, I read what draws my attention. 53%  53%  [ 8 ]
Maybe, if it is recommended or if I'm in the mood at the right moment. 33%  33%  [ 5 ]
Not very often. Rarely, if ever. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Never. I don't care for it. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 15
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Author: Saladin
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I don't think I'd call it an insult because everyone has a different level of skill, and honestly, an insult is usually something someone intends to commit, not a byproduct of just giving something a try. Look at some of the fan films out there and you can see the heart even if the execution isn't the best. To me, it's about seeing that someone is trying as much as it is about succeeding. I like it better when they succeed, but I look back on my early work in 3d and I cringe. But you keep going, keep learning. It gets better.

One big advantage of hand-drawn artwork is that you can really get what is in your mind on the paper if you have talent as a traditional artist. 3d art, is the art of the photographer and the architect and the sculptor. You have to have the eye for composition, lighting, shadow and also, to a large degree, the art of the filmmaker. 3d (and 2d) use persepective to make interesting imagery. Rendering with flat lighting and no shadow loses a lot in a 3d render, making it seem wrong. 2D can do line art and it can be perfectly fine because we are trained to see comics that way from decades of seeing it that way. It looks right because that is how we're trained to see it, and it is only supposed to be representative of the image that might be 'real' rather than to actually 'be' real. 3d art has different levels as well. Game quality, high quality but stylized 3d, and photo-real. It also can go to the uncanny valley, which is really the goal for me. I want to create photonovels entirely 3d rendered. I'm not there yet, but I want my sets and characters to look like they were shot with a photographic camera when I get to the ultimate quality. I want to get to "Lord of the Rings" level before I am done.

Guy, I think your examples above are exactly what I'm talking about with really putting some punch in a scene and focusing on the important elements to tell the story. I think we all are on a learning curve to get to our levels of satisfaction. Part of that is our own individual styles and I think that it's all good. :)

Now, what about stories?

Ken

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Ray Martin is the Captain of the U.S.S. Saladin, in the latter half of the 23rd Century.
"Alternate starship designs are from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph (c) 1975 and are used with permission."
The Starship Saladin is now on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/StarshipSaladin


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:36 pm 
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Artist: Tamerlane
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Location: Colorado, USA, Earth, Sol, Perseus Arm (Orion Starbridge), Virgo Supercluster
Ah... the stories get weighed in on their own merits.

As for my post, I was REALLY tired... I think I was headed for a specific thought, but it got scrambled somehow.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:04 pm 
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Artist: Surya
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I think anything creative is a mix of skill and talent. Anyone can be taught to draw, if they're willing to put in the time and effort to learn, and have some way of manipulating the pen. Anyone can be taught to write stories, too; even a deaf person can be taught to sing operas if they really want to do so.

But most people don't want to. They don't have time, they don't have the patience; this isn't a new attitude, either, it's just become more obvious since back in the day, people had less choices for entertainment if they didn't produce it themselves.

It seems to me that Guy's reaction to "poser comics" is pretty much the same thing as my reaction to prose fan-fic: There's a lot of garbage out there and it's not worth the effort of sorting it all out. Of course, badly written amateur prose is 4,000 years old. Badly composed/posed/lit amateur 3D-rendering is only 15? years old? So it seems newer; but really, it's just the same old thing. It's the modern equivalent of a shepherd composing doggerel because he likes poetry, but doesn't have (or, somettimes, hasn't yet had) the time and the feedback needed to learn to do it well.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:44 am 
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Lieutenant JG
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I will add my thoughts to this topic...they just need organising into categories, chapters, sub-chapters and paragraphs... :D :lol:

Si ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:29 pm 
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Artist: Nova Trek
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Well... having just read this entire thread from the begining, I have to stop and think for a moment...
I have to say that as far as fan films are concerned, I've run into the "Turned off by bad stuff" situation. Like the earliest episodes of New Voyages. When I first came a cross their episodes and saw the sets and the acting, I couldn't sit through it. I've heard that they've gotten better, but I haven't had time to go back and watch any of the later episodes. On the other hand, I enjoy projects like ST:Aurora, with it's CGI universe.
I think as far as the comics are concerned, the choice of whether to read it or not also depends on what you're used to. I have to say Guy, that until I found Tamerlane, I was not a big fan of the Magna-style. For one thing, I had never followed comics in that style enough to be comfortable with it. Like I've always told my comic bookstore lady- if I can't get past the artwork- accept it- then I have trouble getting into the story. But once I saw Tamerlane, and got familar with it- the look, design and over-all feel of the book, it was easier for me to "get into" the story and accept the Tamerlane's world.
As for Poser based projects, I tend to cringe when I look at my own earliest work. And there are those out there that post images at galleries like Renderosity and Renderotica and even Deviantart, that really should not. You want to take them by their shirt fronts and tell them to practice more. to take the time to lay-out how you want something to look- and then take more time to get it there. This is one reason it takes so long between Nova Treks. You guys know that I hold myself to- what I think- is a fairly high standard. I try to pass that standard with each book-if not each panel I render. I make mistakes- lots of them you folks never see! But then I take what I learn from those mistakes and apply that lesson to the next project or panel. For good Poser- or DAZ or any other 3D project- that's the only way to work. I try to get as "Real" as I can- I've said it before- that I want the Nova Treks to look as much like Photonovels as possiable. I'm not there yet, but hopefully I'm getting closer.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:30 am 
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Artist: Tamerlane
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Location: Colorado, USA, Earth, Sol, Perseus Arm (Orion Starbridge), Virgo Supercluster
I guess there are what I call "Cats and Dogs" :)

You see, I like cats. But Dogs, in general, I don't like.

Except Kori. Kori was the family dog... and Kima, the dog before Kori...

So... um, I guess I can't say in a blanket sort of way that I don't like dogs...

Then there was Maia's cat in Japan, she didn't like me, and I didn't like her...

So, there's no way to make a blanket statement about cats, either.

When it comes to Poser fanfic, they are "Dogs" to me: I like Madison's and Davyds (And will probably like Ken's, when he gets there), but I am generally pre-disposed to dislike Poser comics in general because most of them are "Grab their shirt fronts and ask them what they were thinking"... :)

When it comes to Prose Fanfic, they are even worse "Dogs", because there is even MORE out there that I have read that is awful...

Now, hand-drawn comics, those are Cats to me.... but even then, I've found a couple of them that really sucked...

I probably should be more picky about hand-drawn stuff, but now with Poser, even hand-drawn artists are doing their comics in Poser (It's easier), so if I get too picky, I'd read nothing :)

I want to be clear, though: I don't hate all Poser comics because of Poser. I love Surya and Nova Trek.... and at this point, that's pretty much it. BECAUSE of Surya and Nova Trek, though, I'm likely to give others a good shake as well :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Artist: Surya
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Until 199-something, humanity had, through all of it's existence, produced something like 5 exabytes of data.

Now we produce 5 exabytes in 2 days Only part of that is entertainment, of course - but that's still so much potential entertainment that there is no way to read it all. If we want to survive, we have to put in filters of some sort.

The point of this post being: don't be ashamed of making assumptions and acting on them; as long as you are reading/watching/hearing things you enjoy, it doesn't matter how you got there. Sure, you'll miss some good stuff - but you're going to miss some good stuff anyway.

Now, if one is sitting around feeling bored and unentertained, that's a cue to re-evaluate one's filters.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:15 pm 
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Author: Saladin
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Well... I hope we can all at least read and support each other's efforts here. I know that I read and enjoy everyone's stuff. What's out there in the vast universe is hard to isolate to just the good stuff, of course. For me, I like to get a little feedback, positive or negative, to at least get an idea if the work is worth doing.

I'm about to post Issue #3 of Starship Saladin II which is a 39 page conclusion to my first 3 issue trilogy to post either tonight or tomorrow. Following that, I have a 100 page special edition I hope to have posted for Thanksgiving.

It's a lot of pages and a fairly long story. At the same time, it's a relatively quick read too. I've been doing a bit more photoshop work with the screenshots to get stuff that is impossible to do in the game, so it's not entirely 'captures.' Anyhow, I'm working on a much more deluxe DAZ Studio generated comic coming soon. It is a sequel of sorts to "The Champion." I'm also redoing "Distress Call" with better character and rendering work. I didn't put my characters into the scenes before, and I want to rectify that now that I know the pc can handle it. I also updated Xonac to better resemble my friend Brian Tubbs who will play him if we go live action and definitely will voice him for the 3d version I want to do.

There are a lot of things I want to do. The "Alternate Timelines" series is just a fun way to tell some stories that are hopefully entertaining but are not exactly part of my 'real' project. Although the 'character' of the characters, and the history up to the break in the timeline is the same, so reading these tales will give you insight to my characters and some of the situations I'm working on for other stories. It's not a waste of time to read them, if you're at all interested in the Saladin project.

Ken :)

_________________
Ray Martin is the Captain of the U.S.S. Saladin, in the latter half of the 23rd Century.
"Alternate starship designs are from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph (c) 1975 and are used with permission."
The Starship Saladin is now on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/StarshipSaladin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:03 am 
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Lieutenant JG
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Opinion of Fan Fiction.

I love it! I think it give us the opportunity to (if I maybe frank for a moment) stick two fingers up at Paramount and say, "No, this is the way it's supposed to be!"

Preferances in Fan Fiction.

I tend to prefer fan fiction that deals with crews and ships other than that of the Enterprise and established characters. I'd rather, to borrow a phrase from hobbits "fill in the corners" of the universe and I'd rather both read and write that kind of fan fiction. I like seeing/reading what combinations of characters fans come up with, what influences other than Star Trek can be incorporated into the mix.

Writing Fan Fiction.

The problem I have with writing fan fiction is that I get stuck. In fact, I'm stuck now and that is why episode three of Caliburn isn't done yet. I know exactly what needs to happen in the story, I just have to write it. Sounds simple, but every time I try, I don't seem to get anywhere. What I need to do is just sit down with a print out of what I have and grab an A4 pad and plot out the rest of the story.

Slash Fiction.

The main problem I find with slash fiction is that once the characters of whichever pairing are together, then the story is over and the tension of "will they or won't they" fizzles out. Also, it doesn't really do what Star Trek is meant to...come on, you know what I'm gonna say; "explore the human condition", or really create something that goes beyond what is seen on TV, which is what I believe fan fiction is about.

Mediums.

I don't really place one medium of fan fiction over the other, i.e., fan films are better than fan comics, which in turn are better than prose, it's just silly. Personally, I choose to write in prose fiction because that is the medium I'm most comfortable with and how I can tell the best story, if folks don't want to read prose fan fiction then that is their loss.

One of the mediums I've been most impressed with as an audience of fan fiction has been Audio Dramas. Star Trek Outpost being my current favourite.

I think that is about it really, I probably had some more thoughts but I've forgotten them. If I rethink of them then I'll post them.

Si ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:59 pm 
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Artist: Surya
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celticarchie wrote:
Writing Fan Fiction.

The problem I have with writing fan fiction is that I get stuck. In fact, I'm stuck now and that is why episode three of Caliburn isn't done yet. I know exactly what needs to happen in the story, I just have to write it. Sounds simple, but every time I try, I don't seem to get anywhere. What I need to do is just sit down with a print out of what I have and grab an A4 pad and plot out the rest of the story.



The best advice I've ever gotten for that is: just start writing. Anything. Then, after you've got three pages, trash it and start again, and this time, pay attention.

Like in physics, the hardest part is getting things started in the first place.


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